International Circulation: Have you found that within the Working Group people are still talking about beat-to-beat variability or have you found that discussions are about other things in the last couple of years?
　　Dr van de Borne: We still have to focus on the more fundamental world and we have new devices that are capable of recording beat-to-beat variations in blood pressure. In small animals now， it is possible to record that in mice. We need more assessment of renal denervation for instance and we can perform renal denervation in small animals now and look at beat-to-beat variability. There are still lots of things to look at but again we are still some distance away from the clinical field.
　　International Circulation: So with renal denervation and beat-to-beat variations， what do you see in that situation? Does it change?
　　Dr van de Borne: These data are still ongoing. What is happening is that the juxtaglomerular apparatus is very densely innervated by the sympathetic system. It is possible to show that short-term oscillations in， for instance， renin， impacts on the sleep stages. When you dream the sympathetic activity goes higher and renin also. This is something that may contribute to the rise in blood pressure overall over a few minutes (not beat-to-beat). We suspect then that renal denervation may reduce the variability of blood pressure during acute changes in the autonomic nervous system but it is not known yet. There are still a lot of things to do.
　　International Circulation: But that is a very interesting possibility that we may be able to see how blood pressure changes over a couple of minutes.
　　《国际循环》：您是否发现工作组成员仍然在讨论每搏变异性，您又是否发现在过去几年里讨论的是其它问题？
　　Dr van de Borne： 我们仍需要关注更真实的世界，同时我们有了新的设备来记录血压的每搏变异性。现在在一些动物中已经能测量每搏变异性了，比如在小鼠中。例如我们需要对肾脏去神经支配做出更多的评估，现在我们就能给小动物行肾脏去神经术并观察每搏变异性。仍然有很多方面需要研究但是我们也同样与临床应用领域存在很大距离。
　　《国际循环》：那么在肾脏去神经术后的每搏变异性是什么样的呢？它会改变吗？
　　Dr van de Borne： 这些方面仍在进行研究。目前已知的是肾小球旁体的交感神经分布非常密集。这可能显示肾脏内肾素水平的短期波动，可能会影响睡眠阶段。当人们在做梦时交感神经活性更高，同时肾素水平也更高。这是在几分钟内（而非每搏）可能会导致血压升高的原因。我们猜测肾脏去神经术可能在自主神经急性变化期间降低血压的变异性，但是这还并不完全肯定。还有很多方面需要研究。
　　《国际循环》：但是这是个很有意思的问题，比如我们可能发现血压在几分钟之内是如何变化的。